<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Back with a vengeance</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html</link>
	<description>News from San Jose Earthquakes MLS team</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:05:35 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2029</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2029</guid>
		<description>Ian, that sounds about right ... &quot;Moneyball&quot; involves identifying areas that are undervalued and working those areas to your advantage. I think you&#039;re right about stats and soccer at this point in time, although the work of people like Voros McCracken should change this. But I think what Beane is doing isn&#039;t relying on stats, but on knowledge in general, wherever it comes from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, that sounds about right &#8230; &#8220;Moneyball&#8221; involves identifying areas that are undervalued and working those areas to your advantage. I think you&#8217;re right about stats and soccer at this point in time, although the work of people like Voros McCracken should change this. But I think what Beane is doing isn&#8217;t relying on stats, but on knowledge in general, wherever it comes from.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2028</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2028</guid>
		<description>Cutthroat cost-benefit analysis is the nature of the beast when working on a $1.8 million cap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cutthroat cost-benefit analysis is the nature of the beast when working on a $1.8 million cap.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Martinez</title>
		<link>http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2027</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Martinez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2027</guid>
		<description>Holiday break!  I need to use that one! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holiday break!  I need to use that one! <img src='http://sanjose.theoffside.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tuck</title>
		<link>http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2026</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 05:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2026</guid>
		<description>this way of business definitely leaves a bitter taste in everyone&#039;s mouth who is associated with the quakes, but after witnessing the moneyball approach being utilized by the a&#039;s, i would have to say that everyone needs to wait until the final product is assembled.

yes, soccer needs continuity above any other sport, but a dozen or so games together for last years final squad is not much to take apart...sure they looked like a quality bunch, but it was clearly lacking that top-notch finisher up top.  

IF Doyle manages to secure that elusive top-notch finisher, then we will all forget about these tumultuous times. But if not, well then, it is truly a shame, but nonetheless a risk that was worth taking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this way of business definitely leaves a bitter taste in everyone&#8217;s mouth who is associated with the quakes, but after witnessing the moneyball approach being utilized by the a&#8217;s, i would have to say that everyone needs to wait until the final product is assembled.</p>
<p>yes, soccer needs continuity above any other sport, but a dozen or so games together for last years final squad is not much to take apart&#8230;sure they looked like a quality bunch, but it was clearly lacking that top-notch finisher up top.  </p>
<p>IF Doyle manages to secure that elusive top-notch finisher, then we will all forget about these tumultuous times. But if not, well then, it is truly a shame, but nonetheless a risk that was worth taking.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2025</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2025</guid>
		<description>Some interesting points Steven.  I&#039;m not much of a baseball fan, to be honest, so my understanding of Moneyball is mostly regarding Beane&#039;s attempts to translate the philosophy into soccer terms.  The key thrust of it seems to be that through in-depth statistical analysis, you can identify players whose monetary value is lower than it should be according to their statistical value.  Thus, you can then find &quot;bargain&quot; players who can contribute more than their value and status would indicate.  Using this approach, a team with less resources can build a competitive team.

The problem is that while baseball is a sport with a million different statistics which can be endlessly analyzed, soccer is a sport that has traditionally been less easily quantified.  This has been changing in recent years, an example being the distance covered statistic they flash sometimes.  Beane has made some presentations to Premiership teams, outlining how Moneyball statistical analysis could be used in soccer to identify high value, low cost players.  

My problem is that I am skeptical that statistical analysis can be as useful in identifying players in soccer as it has been in baseball.  I believe that there are many aspects of a soccer player&#039;s game that can&#039;t be pinned down as statistics.  I may be wrong, but that&#039;s my feeling.  I also feel that plugging players in an out of the lineup every years as the A&#039;s seem to do will have a detrimental effect on the team.  The top teams in the MLS are usually those with continuity (think Houston, New England, even Columbus was built up slowly).  I may also be wrong in blaming Moneyball philosophy for the Quakes&#039; treatment of Cannon and O&#039;Brien, but there has been a marked shift in this Quakes organization from the past Quakes organization as regards treatment of players.  Your example of the 2001 team is correct in that that championship was not based on continuity, but the teams of the succeeding years were definitely built on a core group with a premium placed on teamwork, hard work, and discipline.  Many players in those years credited the player-friendly atmosphere that Yallop creates with the team&#039;s success.  I worry that cutthroat cost-benefit analysis leaves much to be desired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some interesting points Steven.  I&#8217;m not much of a baseball fan, to be honest, so my understanding of Moneyball is mostly regarding Beane&#8217;s attempts to translate the philosophy into soccer terms.  The key thrust of it seems to be that through in-depth statistical analysis, you can identify players whose monetary value is lower than it should be according to their statistical value.  Thus, you can then find &#8220;bargain&#8221; players who can contribute more than their value and status would indicate.  Using this approach, a team with less resources can build a competitive team.</p>
<p>The problem is that while baseball is a sport with a million different statistics which can be endlessly analyzed, soccer is a sport that has traditionally been less easily quantified.  This has been changing in recent years, an example being the distance covered statistic they flash sometimes.  Beane has made some presentations to Premiership teams, outlining how Moneyball statistical analysis could be used in soccer to identify high value, low cost players.  </p>
<p>My problem is that I am skeptical that statistical analysis can be as useful in identifying players in soccer as it has been in baseball.  I believe that there are many aspects of a soccer player&#8217;s game that can&#8217;t be pinned down as statistics.  I may be wrong, but that&#8217;s my feeling.  I also feel that plugging players in an out of the lineup every years as the A&#8217;s seem to do will have a detrimental effect on the team.  The top teams in the MLS are usually those with continuity (think Houston, New England, even Columbus was built up slowly).  I may also be wrong in blaming Moneyball philosophy for the Quakes&#8217; treatment of Cannon and O&#8217;Brien, but there has been a marked shift in this Quakes organization from the past Quakes organization as regards treatment of players.  Your example of the 2001 team is correct in that that championship was not based on continuity, but the teams of the succeeding years were definitely built on a core group with a premium placed on teamwork, hard work, and discipline.  Many players in those years credited the player-friendly atmosphere that Yallop creates with the team&#8217;s success.  I worry that cutthroat cost-benefit analysis leaves much to be desired.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2024</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2024</guid>
		<description>Melissa:

I am well aware that there is a book about Billy Beane&#039;s approach to running the Oakland Athletics. Watching the phenomenon play out over the past few years, I have noticed how often people use the word &quot;moneyball&quot; as shorthand for whatever it is they want to criticize. Beane&#039;s philosophies on running a franchise can not be reduced to &quot;building from bargain parts.&quot; I was hoping Ian would offer some details about his understanding of &quot;Moneyball&quot; with specifics. I said it would help if he defined &quot;moneyball&quot; because I felt he was being vague about the concept, and I looked forward to something more precise.

Finally, while I agree that continuity has advantages, I&#039;m not sure the Earthquakes are the best example of this. The Quakes went from the laughing stock of MLS to the league champions when they hired a new coach taking on his first head coaching job (who then hired an inexperienced ex-player as his assistant), and added Ekelund, Donovan, Lagos, Agoos, and DeRosario to the roster. I don&#039;t think you can credit continuity for that first MLS title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melissa:</p>
<p>I am well aware that there is a book about Billy Beane&#8217;s approach to running the Oakland Athletics. Watching the phenomenon play out over the past few years, I have noticed how often people use the word &#8220;moneyball&#8221; as shorthand for whatever it is they want to criticize. Beane&#8217;s philosophies on running a franchise can not be reduced to &#8220;building from bargain parts.&#8221; I was hoping Ian would offer some details about his understanding of &#8220;Moneyball&#8221; with specifics. I said it would help if he defined &#8220;moneyball&#8221; because I felt he was being vague about the concept, and I looked forward to something more precise.</p>
<p>Finally, while I agree that continuity has advantages, I&#8217;m not sure the Earthquakes are the best example of this. The Quakes went from the laughing stock of MLS to the league champions when they hired a new coach taking on his first head coaching job (who then hired an inexperienced ex-player as his assistant), and added Ekelund, Donovan, Lagos, Agoos, and DeRosario to the roster. I don&#8217;t think you can credit continuity for that first MLS title.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2023</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2023</guid>
		<description>Steven: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball

Lew Wolff also owns the Oakland As.  Billy Beane is a &quot;consultant&quot; for the Quakes and a huge soccer fan who is actively working to convert his Moneyball tactics to professional soccer.

Oh lookie... at the bottom of that wikipedia entry. Brad Pitt is now attached to the upcoming movie so soon everyone will know what the eff Moneyball is.  Hooray.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steven: </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball</a></p>
<p>Lew Wolff also owns the Oakland As.  Billy Beane is a &#8220;consultant&#8221; for the Quakes and a huge soccer fan who is actively working to convert his Moneyball tactics to professional soccer.</p>
<p>Oh lookie&#8230; at the bottom of that wikipedia entry. Brad Pitt is now attached to the upcoming movie so soon everyone will know what the eff Moneyball is.  Hooray.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2022</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 02:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2022</guid>
		<description>It would help if you defined &quot;moneyball.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would help if you defined &#8220;moneyball.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2021</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 00:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanjose.theoffside.com/team-news/back-with-a-vengeance.html#comment-2021</guid>
		<description>Welcome back! Great post. Losing O&#039;Brien was a mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome back! Great post. Losing O&#8217;Brien was a mistake.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
